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	<title>Comments for Sonja Egeland Kelly</title>
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	<link>http://sonjakelly.com</link>
	<description>Global adventures. National observations. Local reflections.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2011 16:28:52 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>Comment on The Border Between Two Chai Tea Recipes by Andrew the Melvin</title>
		<link>http://sonjakelly.com/2011/09/06/the-border-between-two-chai-tea-recipes/#comment-191</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew the Melvin]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2011 16:28:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sonjakelly.com/?p=416#comment-191</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[wow, just simply fascinating. Borders are usually only on maps, its interesting that this one is so clearly visible from space.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, just simply fascinating. Borders are usually only on maps, its interesting that this one is so clearly visible from space.</p>
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		<title>Comment on The Border Between Two Chai Tea Recipes by Larissa</title>
		<link>http://sonjakelly.com/2011/09/06/the-border-between-two-chai-tea-recipes/#comment-188</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Larissa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Sep 2011 18:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sonjakelly.com/?p=416#comment-188</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know it&#039;s not the same border, but it made me think of this article, http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14715825]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know it&#8217;s not the same border, but it made me think of this article, <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14715825" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-14715825</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Women in politics: Part I Redux by SonjaKelly</title>
		<link>http://sonjakelly.com/2011/05/09/women-in-politics-part-i-redux/#comment-178</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[SonjaKelly]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2011 15:59:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sonjakelly.com/?p=397#comment-178</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Wow, Larissa, I didn&#039;t even see that the other women was gone! Good eye (you too, Andrew). 

I agree, if that was the newspaper&#039;s policy, there could have been much better ways to deal with it. What is particularly fascinating, though, is that this newspaper is in New York--so Clinton served as their senator for a while. And now she is serving as secretary of state, representing the whole US. It brings up a lot of questions about the public versus the private sphere--when the public political sphere is represented by the private religious sphere, whose rules apply?

(Obviously, I have an answer for whose rules I think should apply, but there could be other convincing answers as well).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, Larissa, I didn&#8217;t even see that the other women was gone! Good eye (you too, Andrew). </p>
<p>I agree, if that was the newspaper&#8217;s policy, there could have been much better ways to deal with it. What is particularly fascinating, though, is that this newspaper is in New York&#8211;so Clinton served as their senator for a while. And now she is serving as secretary of state, representing the whole US. It brings up a lot of questions about the public versus the private sphere&#8211;when the public political sphere is represented by the private religious sphere, whose rules apply?</p>
<p>(Obviously, I have an answer for whose rules I think should apply, but there could be other convincing answers as well).</p>
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		<title>Comment on Women in politics: Part I Redux by Andrew</title>
		<link>http://sonjakelly.com/2011/05/09/women-in-politics-part-i-redux/#comment-177</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2011 15:53:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sonjakelly.com/?p=397#comment-177</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In reading about this this morning it seemed to be that the reasoning was that the newspaper in question never posted images of women, religious reasoning about tempting men (seems like the men&#039;s problem, but that&#039;s a different topic), it seems odd to me to digitally remove her though. To do that is to pretend or deny that she was ever there (and the other lady poking her head around the door), which makes it a lie. Why, if its such a common practice to not show women in this paper, don&#039;t just simply black box them out. This in my mind would at least say, &quot;yes there were some women there at this momentous occasion, but we are protecting your stupid lustful eyes&quot;. Not that I would be pro blacking her out, but it would be more akin to the black box redactions that so many documents undergo, rather than this which is more like pretending the illicit contents of such documents were never written.

religion, politics and sex! this is some risky territory, but fortunately as a middle class, white, christian, male I am well qualified to comment...]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In reading about this this morning it seemed to be that the reasoning was that the newspaper in question never posted images of women, religious reasoning about tempting men (seems like the men&#8217;s problem, but that&#8217;s a different topic), it seems odd to me to digitally remove her though. To do that is to pretend or deny that she was ever there (and the other lady poking her head around the door), which makes it a lie. Why, if its such a common practice to not show women in this paper, don&#8217;t just simply black box them out. This in my mind would at least say, &#8220;yes there were some women there at this momentous occasion, but we are protecting your stupid lustful eyes&#8221;. Not that I would be pro blacking her out, but it would be more akin to the black box redactions that so many documents undergo, rather than this which is more like pretending the illicit contents of such documents were never written.</p>
<p>religion, politics and sex! this is some risky territory, but fortunately as a middle class, white, christian, male I am well qualified to comment&#8230;</p>
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		<title>Comment on Women in politics: Part I Redux by Larissa</title>
		<link>http://sonjakelly.com/2011/05/09/women-in-politics-part-i-redux/#comment-176</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Larissa]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 09 May 2011 15:53:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sonjakelly.com/?p=397#comment-176</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Sonja, if I&#039;m not mistaken, the other woman in in the original picture (who was way in the back by the door) is also gone. I think I read she is the chair of anti-terror efforts, or some similar title....]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sonja, if I&#8217;m not mistaken, the other woman in in the original picture (who was way in the back by the door) is also gone. I think I read she is the chair of anti-terror efforts, or some similar title&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Obama: &#8220;Justice has been done&#8221; by Johnathan Hayward</title>
		<link>http://sonjakelly.com/2011/05/01/obama-justice-has-been-done/#comment-142</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Johnathan Hayward]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 May 2011 04:44:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sonjakelly.com/?p=377#comment-142</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I think a trial assumes that he could&#039;ve been taken into custody without first killing others or himself.  From what I&#039;ve heard, he engaged in a gunfight with the special forces, using human shields to resist capture.  To me, it sounds doubtful that he could have been taken alive given the circumstances.  The special forces team was not against taking him alive upon entering the compound, from a news report I heard at least.

I don&#039;t find joy or celebration in his death, but I just wonder if a trial could have been possible.  I also can&#039;t say I will mourn his loss.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think a trial assumes that he could&#8217;ve been taken into custody without first killing others or himself.  From what I&#8217;ve heard, he engaged in a gunfight with the special forces, using human shields to resist capture.  To me, it sounds doubtful that he could have been taken alive given the circumstances.  The special forces team was not against taking him alive upon entering the compound, from a news report I heard at least.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t find joy or celebration in his death, but I just wonder if a trial could have been possible.  I also can&#8217;t say I will mourn his loss.</p>
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		<title>Comment on Obama: &#8220;Justice has been done&#8221; by Andrew</title>
		<link>http://sonjakelly.com/2011/05/01/obama-justice-has-been-done/#comment-141</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Andrew]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 17:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sonjakelly.com/?p=377#comment-141</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[it is a complicated situation to be sure, I love your line &quot;the definition of war dramatically changing&quot;. I too hope that the rights we &quot;Americans&quot; (said the green card holder) enjoy are not just suspended because he is such a well known target. The full facts and details of the raid will no doubt be top secret for some time, but I too hope that when they are made public we will see that an attempt to capture for the purposes of trial was plan A, and the killing was plan B in the event that he was fleeing the scene or something of this nature.

Here&#039;s hoping everyone feels conflicted, and thinks hard before celebrating this human&#039;s death]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>it is a complicated situation to be sure, I love your line &#8220;the definition of war dramatically changing&#8221;. I too hope that the rights we &#8220;Americans&#8221; (said the green card holder) enjoy are not just suspended because he is such a well known target. The full facts and details of the raid will no doubt be top secret for some time, but I too hope that when they are made public we will see that an attempt to capture for the purposes of trial was plan A, and the killing was plan B in the event that he was fleeing the scene or something of this nature.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s hoping everyone feels conflicted, and thinks hard before celebrating this human&#8217;s death</p>
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		<title>Comment on Obama: &#8220;Justice has been done&#8221; by Maybe, but maybe not</title>
		<link>http://sonjakelly.com/2011/05/01/obama-justice-has-been-done/#comment-140</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Maybe, but maybe not]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 16:31:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sonjakelly.com/?p=377#comment-140</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[A number of thoughts:

-I am not entirely sure what you mean by a multilateral agreement.  Do you mean some kind of sanction by the international community for this action?  If that is what you mean, the US probably has it.  The UN Security Council after the September 11 attacks adopted a resolution saying that the Council &quot;expresses its readiness to take all necessary steps to respond to the
terrorist attacks of 11 September 2001, and to combat all forms of terrorism, in accordance with its responsibilities under the Charter of the United Nations.&quot;  The phrase &quot;all necessary steps&quot; is a code word authorizing the use of force, which would no doubt encompass what the US did (although this language would probably have to be considered in context with a few others).  Regarding any possible violation of the sovereignty of Pakistan, there are a number of situations in which it has been tacitly recognized that states may respond to attacks from the territory of another state where the state is unable or unwilling to halt the attacks.  It is not uncontroversial, but neither is it roundly condemned. 

-It would have been completely impossible and unfeasible to somehow bring this action specifically to the UN Security Council for consideration before carrying out the attack, and it looks like the same is true of working with the Pakistani government.  If it was ever going to be successful, it probably had to look like this.

-Regarding a trial, under international law bin Laden is probably considered an enemy combatant, not just a criminal, and for that reason all of the rules about trials and extrajudicial killing are different.  It is a somewhat gray area that has not been fully agreed upon by the international community. 

-On a non-legal moral level, I certainly understand a feeling of ambivalence.  It doesn&#039;t exactly feel like a victory for the rule of law.  A trial would seem to be appropriate, but I am not so sure when you stop to think about it.  There is no real dispute that he was at least largely responsible for what happened, so it would just be a farce in finding him &quot;guilty.&quot;   I think it would be just a painful prolonging of the process to go through a big public show trial.  Bin Laden would have given impassioned speeches proclaiming himself a martyr to the whole world... a good thing?  The  US couldn&#039;t even pull off a trial of KSM feasibly.  Would it have even been possible  to do anything different here?

-Here is an interesting article on the related issue of whether this was an illegal assassination under US domestic law: http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/05/02/was_killing_bin_laden_legal]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A number of thoughts:</p>
<p>-I am not entirely sure what you mean by a multilateral agreement.  Do you mean some kind of sanction by the international community for this action?  If that is what you mean, the US probably has it.  The UN Security Council after the September 11 attacks adopted a resolution saying that the Council &#8220;expresses its readiness to take all necessary steps to respond to the<br />
terrorist attacks of 11 September 2001, and to combat all forms of terrorism, in accordance with its responsibilities under the Charter of the United Nations.&#8221;  The phrase &#8220;all necessary steps&#8221; is a code word authorizing the use of force, which would no doubt encompass what the US did (although this language would probably have to be considered in context with a few others).  Regarding any possible violation of the sovereignty of Pakistan, there are a number of situations in which it has been tacitly recognized that states may respond to attacks from the territory of another state where the state is unable or unwilling to halt the attacks.  It is not uncontroversial, but neither is it roundly condemned. </p>
<p>-It would have been completely impossible and unfeasible to somehow bring this action specifically to the UN Security Council for consideration before carrying out the attack, and it looks like the same is true of working with the Pakistani government.  If it was ever going to be successful, it probably had to look like this.</p>
<p>-Regarding a trial, under international law bin Laden is probably considered an enemy combatant, not just a criminal, and for that reason all of the rules about trials and extrajudicial killing are different.  It is a somewhat gray area that has not been fully agreed upon by the international community. </p>
<p>-On a non-legal moral level, I certainly understand a feeling of ambivalence.  It doesn&#8217;t exactly feel like a victory for the rule of law.  A trial would seem to be appropriate, but I am not so sure when you stop to think about it.  There is no real dispute that he was at least largely responsible for what happened, so it would just be a farce in finding him &#8220;guilty.&#8221;   I think it would be just a painful prolonging of the process to go through a big public show trial.  Bin Laden would have given impassioned speeches proclaiming himself a martyr to the whole world&#8230; a good thing?  The  US couldn&#8217;t even pull off a trial of KSM feasibly.  Would it have even been possible  to do anything different here?</p>
<p>-Here is an interesting article on the related issue of whether this was an illegal assassination under US domestic law: <a href="http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/05/02/was_killing_bin_laden_legal" rel="nofollow">http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2011/05/02/was_killing_bin_laden_legal</a></p>
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		<title>Comment on Obama: &#8220;Justice has been done&#8221; by Efe</title>
		<link>http://sonjakelly.com/2011/05/01/obama-justice-has-been-done/#comment-139</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Efe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 15:54:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sonjakelly.com/?p=377#comment-139</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[On one hand, I just want to keep quite and observe what is going on. On the other hand, the celebrations and reactions are so irrational (human, maybe?) I want to say something. 

Last night, I was watching the crowds in front of the White House with their flags and crudely-made signs. I started thinking about Libyan rebels on top of Gaddafi, or Saddam&#039;s forces showing off with wreckage of American vehicles... There was no difference.

So, long story short here is my point: When it comes to &#039;revenge&#039;, we all want blood. Even Washington, DC - a very liberal, democrat city with extremely educated people in a develop country - is more satisfied when they see blood...What if &#039;they&#039; want blood for Osama, too? When will we stop?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On one hand, I just want to keep quite and observe what is going on. On the other hand, the celebrations and reactions are so irrational (human, maybe?) I want to say something. </p>
<p>Last night, I was watching the crowds in front of the White House with their flags and crudely-made signs. I started thinking about Libyan rebels on top of Gaddafi, or Saddam&#8217;s forces showing off with wreckage of American vehicles&#8230; There was no difference.</p>
<p>So, long story short here is my point: When it comes to &#8216;revenge&#8217;, we all want blood. Even Washington, DC &#8211; a very liberal, democrat city with extremely educated people in a develop country &#8211; is more satisfied when they see blood&#8230;What if &#8216;they&#8217; want blood for Osama, too? When will we stop?</p>
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		<title>Comment on Obama: &#8220;Justice has been done&#8221; by Re Swanson</title>
		<link>http://sonjakelly.com/2011/05/01/obama-justice-has-been-done/#comment-138</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Re Swanson]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 May 2011 12:42:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://sonjakelly.com/?p=377#comment-138</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[My initial reaction last night was &quot;justice&quot; and not mercy. Sonja, you have brought me back to who I am in your brief blog. Mercy is the only response in ANY situation, because hatred has never in the history of the world been a healing agent. Our globe may have celebrated last night, but the sobriety necessary for healing will descend now. And heal we must.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My initial reaction last night was &#8220;justice&#8221; and not mercy. Sonja, you have brought me back to who I am in your brief blog. Mercy is the only response in ANY situation, because hatred has never in the history of the world been a healing agent. Our globe may have celebrated last night, but the sobriety necessary for healing will descend now. And heal we must.</p>
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